@akromo
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Thank you.
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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22
UK: Would anyone like to attend Frank Otuo's next hearing against the Watchtower? Or send him your support?
by defender of truth inwww.standard.co.uk/news/jehovahs-witness-sues-for-150000-after-church-snubbed-him-over-fraud-claims-9750062.htmlfrank otuo is suing the watchtower for disfellowshipping him and causing the loss of his family and his friends, after being disfellowshipped based on a false accusation of fraud.on friday may 13th 2016, a hearing will take place to decide whether the watchtower's defence will be thrown out.otuo is confident that it will be.
;)would anyone like to be there on the day, to see what happens and maybe even report back and tell us what you saw?.
otuo would like it if some people could be there to cheer him on, as it were.
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defender of truth
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78 to go and hopefully something good comes of it. Please do your part and sign up. Thanks
by Tenacious inonly 78 signatures are needed in order to send the request to the irs that they revoke or at the very least investigate the borg.
come'on guys, support it.. click here to support and sign up!.
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defender of truth
Sorry, I may not have expressed that clearly enough.
The blood policy does obviously endanger children's lives, and they may not make an informed and voluntary decision.
But it is not the responsibility of the IRS to look at what a religion teaches, which is the only link between the parents decision to refuse blood and the org's policy.
Frankly, I have doubts that even covering up child abuse will be looked into by the IRS.
All they seem to be concerned with is political campaigning.
Anyway, this is a good effort, but unless you get the petition into the media somehow with an organisation behind you, I cannot honestly see it having an effect.
http://aawa.co/about-aawa/contact-us/
Again, all the best. :)
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78 to go and hopefully something good comes of it. Please do your part and sign up. Thanks
by Tenacious inonly 78 signatures are needed in order to send the request to the irs that they revoke or at the very least investigate the borg.
come'on guys, support it.. click here to support and sign up!.
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defender of truth
Bump.
I have forwarded this to several people, but can I make a suggestion?
". unyielding, dangerous, and outdated policies on shunning or excommunication known as disfellowshipping
· child abuse
· the banning of lifesaving blood transfusions that affect children which would classify them as a cult- like organization that fails to protect children, and causes harm to minors and the general health and well-being of the public."
It is not the IRS's responsibility to investigate shunning, ie people not talking to each other, even the courts don't recognise shunning as illegal.
Also, refusing blood transfusion is voluntary, the IRS are not going to investigate that either. They don't care about what a religion teaches, I am afraid. They don't define cults either, so maybe remove any uses of that word.
I would suggest removing those parts, if the petition can be edited at all.
"We, as current practicing as well as former members of this organization, as well as others who are not affiliated with this said organization, feel very passionately and strongly that these child abuse offences and outdated policies must come to light and deserves more coverage in mainstream media in the United States. "
I would recommend just ending this sentence at 'feel very strongly about these child abuse offenses and outdated policies'.
The IRS are not interested in you wanting coverage from the mainstream media.
The UK charities commission were only willing to investigate due to the org's child abuse related policies. If you want any real chance of being listened to, maybe focus on just the child abuse partof your letter. (which is quite well written).
Finally, you may need to get media coverage for the petition.
Best of luck. :)
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55
Here's a view on homosexuality for you...
by konceptual99 in...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.
all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.
homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.
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defender of truth
WT has continued to be compassionate, merciful, understanding, tolerant towards homosexual sinners, never hate or repulsion or rejection -always compassion mercy and understanding for the sinner but not the sin.
@Fisherman, that is utter nonsense.
There is nothing 'understanding' about the Watchtower's teaching that homosexuality is an abhorrent, deviant and immoral act.
Young people are taught to not even think in a way that is in line with a homosexual preference, that acting on your homosexuality is abhorrent, and that anyone who practices those acts will be destroyed.
There is nothing 'compassionate and tolerant' about the Watchtower's prescribed treatment of people who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle, namely disfellowshipping them and cutting them off from their family and friends.
Gay Jehovah's Witnesses will only be shown the 'mercy' you refer to, if they reject their sexuality and live a celibate life. In other words, "we will forgive you and forget your abhorrent and deviant actions, just as long as you don't act on your feelings again, and fight to deny them constantly". Very loving(!)
'Never repulsion' - Have you heard Anthony Morris III talk about the homosexuals as disgusting? (For wanting to see men in tight pants, for any who don't get the reference).
'Never rejection' - Are you still talking here about the organization that will tell even members of a (practicing) homosexual Jehovah's Witnesses own family to not talk to them?!
It is the Watchtower's doctrine of complete rejection of anyone practicing homosexuality, that has caused psychological distress to the point of some even feeling suicidal!!
OK, rant over.
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New Article - Watchtower View of Homosexuality
by jwfacts ini have thought about writing this article for many years, and the awake!
2014 no.4 was the final straw.
there it states that jehovah's witnesses show no prejudice towards homosexuals, and "they neither mock nor mistreat people whose practices differ from their own.
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defender of truth
Great article Jwfacts.
All I can think of to add is this.
In 2006 Kingdom news no.37 was distributed worldwide.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200273273/16/2
Here are some parts of it that you might want to include:
Kingdom News No. 37
A Worldwide Message
The End of False Religion Is Near!
The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?
False Religion . . .
▪ TOLERATES IMMORAL SEX: In Western lands, church groups ordain gay and lesbian members of the clergy and urge governments to recognize same-sex marriages. Even churches that condemn immorality have tolerated religious leaders who have sexually abused children. What, though, does the Bible teach? It plainly states: “Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men . . . will inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Do you know of religions that condone immoral sex?
What does the future hold for religions that produce rotten fruit? Jesus warned: “Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matthew 7:19) Yes, false religion will be chopped down and destroyed!
Not sure whether this could fit in anywhere, but I'm just putting it here, in case it's useful.
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I'm getting baptized
by BlackWolf ini know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.
my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.
i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.
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defender of truth
Hi BlackWolf.
I think you are very brave. I did not have the guts to stand up to my parents in the way you are doing now. Trust me, getting baptised will not make your life any easier in regards to your family. Not in the long term, anyway.
More 'privileges and opportunities' open up to you once you get baptised. Especially if you are a male. (Sorry if I have missed you saying if you are male, I have only just come across your post and thought I could help.) You will be pushed and pressured to do more more more, it will never end believe me. Being unbaptized is as easy as it gets, until you can fade and be free at last, obviously.
I said I have too many doubts ( whether this is gods organization, governing body, 1914, overlapping generation ). He said we would study these topics over the next few weeks and then I can make my decision.
Anybody have any advice on how I can easily disprove these topics without sounding like an apostate?
This is my big opportunity to possibly wake up my dad!!
First of all, helping your dad 'wake up' is likely not a very realistic goal at this point. Don't try to do too much at once.
If you don't want to come across as 'apostate', just don't argue with him or debate doctrine. It will likely be fruitless anyway.
Don't try to 'disprove' anything. Let HIM PROVE TO YOU that JW doctrine is correct, from the Bible.
Like so many bible studies out there right now wasting JW's time and going nowhere (from a JW point of view I mean, people not attending meetings and 'progressing' are wasting time), you have the RIGHT to QUESTION everything that doesn't make sense to you, and you have every right to not accept the explanations offered. Just make sure to do it respectfully: "I'm afraid I just can't see where the Scripture says that (whatever the Watchtower claims it is saying)."
Maybe you could just keep saying "I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how/why... *Insert doubt here*." (For example, ''..don't understand why if the first century governing body told everyone where to go and what to do, why is there only one example in the Bible where all the older men came together to discuss a doctrine, in what was likely a large group of men?"
The term "governing body" is 'loaded language' as it never appears in the Scriptures and so has unique application within the pages of the Watchtower. How does the Watchtower justify a Governing Body when the term does not exist in the Bible? This is by reference to the issue of circumcision as discussed in Acts chapter 15. This is the sole Bible example of brothers convening to establish doctrine.
On this occasion, it cannot be said that the decision was made by an established governing body. Acts 15:2 says:
"… they arranged for Paul and Barnabas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem regarding this dispute."
Rather than showing the existence of a small number of 12 leaders being referred to as a governing body, Acts describes a large gathering. This was comprised of the apostles, older men (elders), Paul and Barnabas, who were travelling missionaries, and others. This large group combined to decide on an important issue affecting the local congregations.
The history of the Apostle Paul also shows that there was no centralized governing body directing the early Christians. After Paul's conversion, he did not convene with a governing body or go to Jerusalem to receive an assignment. Rather, he immediately embarked on his missionary work under direction of the Holy Spirit. Paul did not make his first trip to Jerusalem until three years after his conversion, and even then he did not meet with a group of leaders, but just with Peter and James.
That is only an example, remember.
Or maybe say something like: "The current generation understanding just doesn't make sense to me right now, and I really feel that I must make the truth my own. I cannot teach others something when I don't feel that it makes sense to me."
Generally speaking, be polite and respectful, and let HIM try to convince YOU. He won't be able to. He may even find that his reasoning comes up short..
Then you will be at a stalemate. Others may be able to advise you from there onwards.
All the best. :)
P.s. Here are a few more links that may help you.
www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php
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Suffering and existence of God
by elbib inmany people find it difficult to reconcile suffering and existence of god.
it seems they feel that it is god’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts..
people’s hobby has something to do with this kind of reasoning!
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defender of truth
elbib 11 hours ago
Dear defenderoftruth,
I can try answering to your question why animals suffer.
Let us first take an overall picture. Bible itself says all (including animals) were vegetarians to start with.
... How long this perfect situation remained we do not know, but what we do know is that it was a perfect start. Then some of the humans turn hunters (Genesis 10:9) This upsets the perfect environment where some of the animals too turn hunters. Please note, man set the pattern first and animals just followed humans.
@Elbib
Where is the evidence for this? Animals were not changed to carnivores after man started hunting.
There were carnivores roaming the earth long before Eden.
Carnivores existed before mankind.
Predators existed for at least thousands, if not millions, of years before humans. Evidence for an omnivore or carnivore diet comes from examining body shape, teeth, fossilised stomach contents and coprolites (faeces). Whilst Watchtower may disagree on the million year ages given for these fossils, there is no doubt from where they exist in rock strata levels that they predate humans by lengthy periods of time.
Following evidence from the fossil record show ancient carnivores in the act of consuming other animals...
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Suffering and existence of God
by elbib inmany people find it difficult to reconcile suffering and existence of god.
it seems they feel that it is god’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts..
people’s hobby has something to do with this kind of reasoning!
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defender of truth
@Elbib
Many people find it difficult to reconcile suffering and existence of God. It seems they feel that it is God’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts.
I do see your point here. Humans often do cause problems for themselves and others.
This is especially true if you believe in Adam and Eve spreading sin, suffering and death to all of mankind.
One question, though:
Why would a loving God design a world where animals suffer and die due to natural causes, as well as suffering caused by the predator/prey relationships that go back millions of years?
Animals did not sin. Animals have suffered, due to natural causes and predation, long before Adam and Eve supposedly existed.
Animals have suffered, either because:
a) Life evolved in this way, there is no loving Creator God, and that is just the way it is.
or
b) God designed things in this way, suffering was part of his plan from the beginning.
Elbib, what are your thoughts on this?
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For anyone else reading this, here is a good article on Jwfacts.
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/animals-vegetarian.php
www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/animals-suffering.php
If you have any thoughts or feedback, please send it to Jwfacts. -
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Child safety in the UK
by usualusername1 inhehi was at a function this evening and was chatting to the assistant of the ceo of the biggest charity for child safety in the uk.
i spoke about safeguarding and the huge investigation currently going on.
the gentleman is a member of some heavy weight committees on child safety.
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defender of truth
Have you spoken to the ceo yet?
Here are a couple of links you could share.
https://www.revealnews.org/blog/in-england-more-accusations-that-jehovahs-witnesses-hid-sex-abuse/